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#1110156 - Mon Mar 08 2010 06:13 PM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: the G-man]
Grimm
Offline lost in time

Registered: Thu Jun 13 2002
Posts: 18655
 Originally Posted By: the G-man
Next you're going to tell us that Barack Obama is a moderate



if it gets your panties more twisted, I might. \:lol\:

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#1110157 - Mon Mar 08 2010 06:15 PM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: thedoctor]
Grimm
Offline lost in time

Registered: Thu Jun 13 2002
Posts: 18655
 Originally Posted By: thedoctor
This guy makes some good points, but I think his overall argument is flawed. It all hinges on his definition of the word 'liberal', which he seems to equate with 'radical'. It may be a dictionary definition, but it's not the one you will find in a poli. sci. class. I do agree that people overreact to things like the Cap. America Tea Party issue. It's a fucking comic book. Move on.



no, he doesn't equate liberal with "radical." read a little closer.

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#1110168 - Mon Mar 08 2010 08:28 PM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: Grimm]
thedoctor
Online   argumentative Timelord. Drunkard.

Registered: Sat Jun 22 2002
Posts: 20663
Loc: In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
He does in a roundabout way. He says liberals aren't liberals because they don't change the status quo. He then says that the Tea Party movement isn't conservative because they want to change the status quo with radical means. Just an example, I feel, of his poor definition of the terms of his argument.

whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."

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#1110503 - Thu Mar 11 2010 11:41 PM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: thedoctor]
Grimm
Offline lost in time

Registered: Thu Jun 13 2002
Posts: 18655
I think you misunderstand his points. he's not saying liberals aren't liberal, but that most are not truly radicals in the sense that some want to think. he's saying that the majority of liberals and conservatives really want the same thing. A point you and I have made in conversation before.

in relation to the Tea Party, he's not saying they aren't conservative, but that they are radical conservatives. it's all in relation to his point about whether or not any of the various groups in question truly want to change the status quo.

as most so called "liberals and/or conservatives" want to keep the basic status quo, again they essentially want the same thing. as relates to superhero books, they're generally about keeping the status quo as well.

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#1110520 - Fri Mar 12 2010 04:31 AM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: Grimm]
Son of Mxy
Offline BLASIAN

Registered: Thu Mar 04 2004
Posts: 12124
the status quo is that women can't vote. Also, blacks.


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#1110530 - Fri Mar 12 2010 09:27 AM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: Grimm]
thedoctor
Online   argumentative Timelord. Drunkard.

Registered: Sat Jun 22 2002
Posts: 20663
Loc: In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
 Originally Posted By: Grimm
I think you misunderstand his points. he's not saying liberals aren't liberal, but that most are not truly radicals in the sense that some want to think. he's saying that the majority of liberals and conservatives really want the same thing. A point you and I have made in conversation before.

in relation to the Tea Party, he's not saying they aren't conservative, but that they are radical conservatives. it's all in relation to his point about whether or not any of the various groups in question truly want to change the status quo.

as most so called "liberals and/or conservatives" want to keep the basic status quo, again they essentially want the same thing. as relates to superhero books, they're generally about keeping the status quo as well.



I understand what he's saying. You just don't understand what I'm saying. Neener-neener. \:p

Serioulsy, I do get his argument. I feel that it's poorly made. He's simply trying to give comfort to the conservative reader who may feel that his ideas are being beat up on. The way he's doing it is by word play. He's mostly focusing his definition of 'conservative' and 'liberal' on actions rather than ideaology, which makes his later discussion on idealogy weak. I like his take on describing Superman and Batman, and his spin on Civil War is interesting. At the end of the day, he spent as much time and energy finding a work around to console the battered conservative reader as that reader spent bitching about being battered by a fictional character.

whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."

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#1110531 - Fri Mar 12 2010 10:48 AM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: thedoctor]
Prometheus
Offline Madman with a Box

Registered: Sat Feb 10 2001
Posts: 23731
Loc: The 21st Century
Listen, until Captain America starts endorsing Ron Paul, then count me OUT!



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#1110536 - Fri Mar 12 2010 10:53 AM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: Prometheus]
thedoctor
Online   argumentative Timelord. Drunkard.

Registered: Sat Jun 22 2002
Posts: 20663
Loc: In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
NO! YOU ARE!

whomod said: I generally don't like it when people decide to play by the rules against people who don't play by the rules.
It tends to put you immediately at a disadvantage and IMO is a sign of true weakness.
This is true both in politics and on the internet."

Our Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man said: "no, the doctor's right. besides, he has seniority."

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#1114179 - Wed Apr 21 2010 05:53 PM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: Pariah]
Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man
Offline 1 Millionth Customer

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 14198
Loc: New York, NY
 Originally Posted By: Pariah
Bull. Shit.

"No superhero comic from Marvel or DC is liberal in the truest sense of the word, challenging the status quo."

Interesting wordplay. Basically every single page of every book could be communist manifesto garbage, but because that's the status quo, it's not really liberal.


The first Superman comics had him demolishing rundown buildings which would force the owners to build newer buildings. He challenged death penalty rulings and fought corruption. Liberal in the sense of challenging the status quo. Of course the article said that and you chose to read what you felt you had to in order to reenforce your beliefs.

Bow ties are coool.

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#1114199 - Wed Apr 21 2010 07:04 PM Re: Superhero comics remain basically conservative [Re: Friendly Neighborhood Ray-man]
the G-man
Online   ass-kicky Lawyers Guns & Money

Registered: Fri May 16 2003
Posts: 36191
Loc: the right
God, I am so sick of lefties bringing up those two or three early Superman stories as if that proves anything about modern comics. You probably think Clark Kent still works for George Taylor at the Daily Star, dont' you?
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