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#967507 - Fri Jun 13 2008 01:56 AM Re: Scott McLellan To Testify Before Congress on Plame Case!!!!!!!! [Re: whomod]
Irwin Schwab Moderator
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 Originally Posted By: whomod




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#967513 - Fri Jun 13 2008 01:58 AM Re: Scott McLellan To Testify Before Congress on Plame Case!!!!!!!! [Re: whomod]
whomod
Offline some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?

Registered: Thu May 01 2003
Posts: 5958
Loc: Los Angeles. The left coast.
 Originally Posted By: whomod
 Originally Posted By: Captain Sammitch





Poor bsams.

You fell for it too huh?

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#967528 - Fri Jun 13 2008 02:06 AM Re: Scott McLellan To Testify Before Congress on Plame Case!!!!!!!! [Re: whomod]
Irwin Schwab Moderator
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 Originally Posted By: whomod




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#967581 - Fri Jun 13 2008 04:26 AM Re: "It's not about oil or Iraq..." [Re: whomod]
Wonder Boy
Offline rex's personal obsession

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 5695
Loc: Fucktard Beach, Florida
Hey, look at this !

Another post from 5 years ago, toward the beginning of the Iraq war, where Whomod had nice things to say about McCain, because McCain was critical of Bush's management of the Iraq war.


 Originally Posted By: whomod, September 14, 2003


By the way Dave, here's a transcript from the 9th of Sept. (mistakenly posted as 10/09/03)

Congress grills Bush administration over Iraq

 Quote:
Just when, for example, would more international troops arrive in Iraq?

MARC GROSSMAN, UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE: Senator, it depends on how quickly we pass this UN Security Council resolution and our objective is to -.

SENATOR JOHN McCAIN: That's true.

One month, six months, two months, five years?

NORMAN HERMANT: There weren't a lot of answers.

SENATOR JOHN McCAIN: I would repeat -- do you have any idea as to when we could expect the first international troops to arrive in Iraq?

MARC GROSSMAN: No, sir -.

SENATOR JOHN McCAIN: You have no idea?

MARC GROSSMAN: Well, sir, I -.

SENATOR JOHN McCAIN: Thank you.

NORMAN HERMANT: And more than four months after George Bush boasted of prevailing in Iraq, there was plenty of criticism for the American strategy -- or lack of one -- since the toppling of Saddam's regime.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ, US DEPUTY DEFENSE SECRETARY: You say we didn't plan for when the war was over.

The problem is that the war isn't over.

The problem is that the Ba'athist regime -.

SENATOR TED KENNEDY, ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: You mean in spite of the President's statement out of that aircraft carrier, when he made his statement.

You're saying now the war is -?

PAUL WOLFOWITZ: Go back and read the statement, Senator.

SENATOR TED KENNEDY: I listened to it.

I heard the statement.

I saw that banner that was there.

PAUL WOLFOWITZ: He said it was the end of major combat operations, which indeed it was.

SENATOR TED KENNEDY: Now you distinguish between the end of major combat and the war isn't over -- that is very interesting for service men and women that are out there, very interesting.

NORMAN HERMANT: Many of those service men and women were reacting today to news that tours of duty for reservists have been extended.

Most will now be here for one year.

US SOLDIER: Well, morale was pretty high, but now it's at the bottom.

It's very disappointing.


Y'know, you can't always paint the non-rosy news as being "liberal" attacks, sir. I guess John McCain and Chuck Hagel are also part of this liberal conspiracy of yours.

 Quote:
administration officials had criticized former White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsey for estimating the Iraq war would cost $100 billion to $200 billion. With the $87 billion request following $79 billion already approved by Congress, "we're already in the upper reaches of that estimate for the first two years of a long commitment," he said.

"And, Mr. Wolfowitz, you told Congress in March that 'We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon.' Talk about rosy scenarios," he said.

Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass. said Iraq was "the wrong war at the wrong time."

"It was a go-it-alone policy. And we had a policy in order to win the war, but it's quite clear we didn't have a policy to protect our troops after the war is over," he said.

Not all criticism came from Democrats. Republican Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska said Tuesday on the CBS News Early Show that the administration "did a miserable job of planning the post-Saddam Iraq."

At the hearing, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said "we underestimated the size of the challenge that we would face after the military operations were completed."

Noting estimates by Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq, that reconstruction would cost tens of billions of dollars, McCain said "That was not anticipated before we went in." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/09/politics/main572278.shtml




But contradicting himself, he now calls him "McSame" and implies that McCain is just like Bush.

Ignoring the evidence that WHOMOD HIMSELF posted, that McCain was critical of Bush for all 5 years, and constructively pressed Bush all along toward a winning strategy in Iraq.

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#967582 - Fri Jun 13 2008 04:31 AM Re: "It's not about oil or Iraq..." [Re: Wonder Boy]
whomod
Offline some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?

Registered: Thu May 01 2003
Posts: 5958
Loc: Los Angeles. The left coast.


So you're going to post stuff from before McCain decided to fall in lock step with Bush? To prove what exactly?

That McCain is either schizophrenic or senile (or just sold out his independence in order to court the far right) now?

While you're at it, why don't you post the old video that I put up with Cheney talking about why invading Iraq would be disaster. Since I agree with that old assessment, that must mean I must disagree with him now only because he's the Vice President.

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#967583 - Fri Jun 13 2008 04:39 AM Re: "It's not about oil or Iraq..." [Re: whomod]
Wonder Boy
Offline rex's personal obsession

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 5695
Loc: Fucktard Beach, Florida
 Originally Posted By: whomod


So you're going to post stuff from before McCain decided to fall in lock step with Bush? To prove what exactly?

That McCain is either schizophrenic or senile (or just sold out his independence in order to court the far right) now?


Just another lying cocksucker's argument on your part.


PROVE IT !

You can't. Because it's not true.

Consistently for 5 years, McCain pushed for Rumsfeld's removal, and consistently for 5 years, McCain pressed for larger troop-strength in Iraq, enough to get the job done right. McCain also consistently criticized unanticipated cost, and wasteful spending in Iraq, among other things.

UNLIKE Obama, Hillary, or the other Democrat leadership, McCain never advocated withdrawal or abandonment of Iraq. Only switching to an effective winning strategy.

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#967585 - Fri Jun 13 2008 04:47 AM Re: "It's not about oil or Iraq..." [Re: Wonder Boy]
whomod
Offline some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?

Registered: Thu May 01 2003
Posts: 5958
Loc: Los Angeles. The left coast.
Um...ok

With McCain, it's largely been an issue of judgement on Iraq and consistently, his judgement has been wrong.

McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”

* McCain said he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”

“But I believe, Katie, that the Iraqi people will greet us as liberators.” [NBC, 3/20/03]

“It’s clear that the end is very much in sight.” [ABC, 4/9/03]

“There’s not a history of clashes that are violent between Sunnis and Shiahs. So I think they can probably get along.” [MSNBC, 4/23/03]

“This is a mission accomplished. They know how much influence Saddam Hussein had on the Iraqi people, how much more difficult it made to get their cooperation.” [This Week, ABC, 12/14/03]

“I’m confident we’re on the right course.” [ABC News, 3/7/04]

“I think the initial phases of it were so spectacularly successful that it took us all by surprise.” [CBS, 10/31/04]

“I do think that progress is being made in a lot of Iraq. Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course. If I thought we weren’t making progress, I’d be despondent.” [The Hill, 12/8/05]



 Quote:
McCain Five Years Ago Today - Praised Rumsfeld, Bush, Conduct of War

McCain was proud of Bush's leadership on the war in Iraq:

MATTHEWS: Let me you about, are you proud of the work, and the leadership of the Commander-in-Chief in this war?

MCCAIN: Yes, I am. I think the president has led with great clarity and I think he's done a great job leading the country, don't you all? [MSNBC Hardball, 4/23/03]

McCain on admiring Rumsfeld.

MCCAIN: "...and I'm a great admirer of Rumsfeld."

...MCCAIN: I think the president is blessed to have two extremely talented people (Powell and Rumsfeld), experienced people, working for him, and others, but particularly those two. [MSNBC Hardball, 4/23/03]

McCain - Sunnis and Shiites can probably get along.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator McCain, with what you've already said about the powerful presence of the Shiah majority in Iraq, how would you propose we represent that majority in the new democracy?

MCCAIN: Well, I don't think there's any doubt that as the largest population segment, that they would play a major role.

I think one of the tricky areas, of course, is the relationship they have with the Kurds. There's not a history of clashes that are violent between Sunnis and Shiites. So I think they can probably get along. [MSNBC Hardball, 4/23/03]

Despite claiming to have called for more troops from the outset, McCain didn't think we needed more international troops on the ground.

MCCAIN: I think that the only military presence required right now would be American and British. [MSNBC Hardball, 4/23/03]

McCain talks about lessons he learned from Vietnam, lessons that apply pretty clearly to Iraq as well.

MCCAIN: ...I have been committed from my experience in Vietnam never to get into a conflict that the American people would not support over time.

I felt that the difference between the Vietnam conflict and this one we just went through is that in Vietnam, we didn't have clear cut objectives. We didn't have a strategy for victory. And obviously, we didn't have, over time, the support of the American people. I didn't feel that the Iraqi challenge in any way could be equated to that in Vietnam. [MSNBC Hardball, 4/23/03]

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#967586 - Fri Jun 13 2008 04:54 AM Re: "It's not about oil or Iraq..." [Re: whomod]
whomod
Offline some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?

Registered: Thu May 01 2003
Posts: 5958
Loc: Los Angeles. The left coast.
So as you see,he has criticized a few times, and when he has I've agreed. But they've been the exception rather than the rule. Criticizing Rumsfeld is not some great act of defiance. Well, to Republicans maybe it was. It just shows that for a short while he exhibited some common sense. And the GOP, like with Hagel, wanted nothing to do with that kind of talk. In fact i'll bet you probably asserted that he was comforting America's enemies by speaking out.

That is your standard line up until the last American accepts something as the conventional wisdom.

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#967587 - Fri Jun 13 2008 04:57 AM Re: "It's not about oil or Iraq..." [Re: Wonder Boy]
whomod
Offline some RKMB'ers are Obsessed with Black People Hmmm?

Registered: Thu May 01 2003
Posts: 5958
Loc: Los Angeles. The left coast.
 Originally Posted By: Wonder Boy
Hey, look at this !

Another post from 5 years ago, toward the beginning of the Iraq war, where Bush had nice things to say about McCain, because McCain was critical of Bush's management of the Iraq war.



Bush was happy McCain was criticizing the war?

Wonder Boy??

Look, a lot of those sunny scenarios could easily be explained away if McCain so wished by just saying he was as misled as most Americans now know they were.

Hillary did it. Edwards did it. Even though I think they should have fucking known better and just went along with the war out of political cowardice and calculation at the time.

But in fact he's taken the opposite approach these past couple of years. He's wholeheartedly embraced the war even as it's been shown to have been predicated on lie upon lie. That's not to be applauded, condoned or tolerated or just allowed to pass. While all the intelligence has said one thing, he's embraced the original premise even stronger. It's really a sort of political suicide designed to appeal to die hards but will IMO turn off most everyone else who accepts the fact that we were all misled by Bush and need to get out if only to save what's left of our economy and our military.

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#967589 - Fri Jun 13 2008 05:30 AM Re: "It's not about oil or Iraq..." [Re: whomod]
Wonder Boy
Offline rex's personal obsession

Registered: Wed Sep 12 2001
Posts: 5695
Loc: Fucktard Beach, Florida
If you were not so blindly partisan, Whomod, you would see that I was constructively critical of the Iraq war from the beginning.
Not "blindly supportive" of Bush. Less critical than you, but still critical and guardedly optimistic that these hurdles could be overcome. And it took 5 years, but they finally were.

I felt from the beginning that we didn't go in with enough troops, and that we should have conducted the war as the generals wanted it fought, not as the civilian leadership did.

But at the same time, I felt that liberal criticism has consistently hidden the victories we've made, building schools, hospitals, and in every way, a more open and modern state.
UNREPORTED: a real estate boom in Iraq over the last year, brought on by the new security Iraqis feel in the wake of the Surge.
UNREPORTED: Anuual economic growth of about 10% a year, bringing with it jobs and huge spikes in annual earnings.

It has been a very unusual war, and it has required repeated adaptations on the part of our military to deal with those changes.

We weren't fighting just Iraqi resistance, but a foreign Al Qaida leadership that was organizing Iraqi resistance, of Iraqis that wouldn't be able to resist our occupation otherwise.
Then Al Qaida sucessfully blew up a sacred Shia mosque and killed hundreds, that finally sparked ethnic cleansing and a civil war, separate from the fight against Al Qaida. That's Iraqis killing iraqis, NOT Iraqis killed by U.S. forces.

You posted a bunch of soundbyted quotes obviously collected at some partisan spin site, which I'm confident don't reflect the full context of what McCain actually said.

AGAIN:
McCain has pressed for more troops in Iraq from the beginning, and he began pressing for Rumsfeld's removal early on. McCain also criticized the Bush administration for under-estimating the cost of reconstruction, but he also acknowledged that there's no way we could have known how bad the infrastructure in Iraq had been allowed to deteriorate under Saddam Hussein. Much of the reconstruction was not war damage, but simply schools, hospitals and civilian infrastructure that had been neglected for decades under Saddam.

You label that at "blindly supporting Bush". I label his quoted remarks as being passively supportive, while pressing Bush on the most important and changeable aspects of the war strategy (i.e., CONSTRUCTIVELY criticizing Bush, and pushing for change from within the party)

Here's an interview of McCain I posted earlier, from PBS News Hour, on November 6, 2003:


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